By HANNAH MEANS-SHANNON
Photos by Lissyelle Laricchia
Mackenzie Shivers released her third studio album, Rejection Letter, in April, following on from 2019’s The Unkindness, and building on several EP releases as well.
The album took shape in response to the unsettled and challenging aspects of 2020, moving from her discovery of the joys of recording live on The Unkindness, and making it necessary for each person participating in the album to record separately in Woodstock with co-producer and engineer Kevin Salem. Out of that necessity arose an unexpected balm: Feeling the peace and tranquility of a quiet studio during a time of outer turmoil.
Rejection Letter, while it tackles many pressing themes related to the outside world both well before and during the pandemic, was built on contemplative hours and expanded time for process.
More recently, Mackenzie Shivers also took part in The Woodstock Sessions to record several of the songs for the album live with a grand piano, the first of which “Afraid,” has been released, to give further insights into the song and how it can be translated into a solo piece.
Many of the songs on the album were born out of an unexpected outpouring of songwriting when the artist found herself staying far longer than expected with friends in Cape Cod at the outset of the pandemic and, as the resulting album’s title track suggests, it challenges our assumptions about acceptance and rejection, the status quo and the unavoidable battles we must face within ourselves. Mackenzie Shivers took some time out from newly vaccinated visits to talk about crafting the album and her recent ethereal video, “Martha’s Vineyard.”
Hannah Means-Shannon: I noticed that you released a video playing “Afraid” live as part of The Woodstock Sessions. What is the context for The Woodstock Sessions? Is that something that other musicians take part in?
Mackenzie Shivers: It’s my understanding that The Woodstock Sessions are live performances that often turn into live recordings. In the pre-pandemic, they’d have audience members in the room, and then they’d record also. When the pandemic hit, they realized that they had a revamped live room and wanted to do The Woodstock Sessions, but in a pandemic-friendly way. So they said that I could come and play whatever songs that I wanted. They had a grand piano and great videographers, so I thought that sounded incredible. They said I would have use of the video as long as they could use it to promote the studio or the Sessions in the future. I actually have more videos from that evening which will come out. It was such a blast, especially getting to play that piano!
HMS: It looks and sounds beautiful, and that sounds like a great thing to keep rolling out to spotlight the songs on the album. How did you choose the songs that you would play during those Sessions?
MS: I thought that “Afraid” lent itself well to just me and the grand piano, since that’s kind of its core. One video that hasn’t come out yet is for the title track, “Rejection Letter”, and I wanted to do that one for the opposite reason, because I actually wrote it after I had been in the studio for the album. I demoed it out on my MIDI keyboard and we recorded it later on in the process. I ended up playing electric piano on it and including a little bit of synth on it. I’m really thrilled with how it came out, but for The Woodstock Sessions, I thought it would be really fun to do it on the grand piano and make it kind of a piano ballad. So that’s a really different version. I just decided which songs felt right for that setting with the piano and took advantage of the grand piano being there.
HMS: Wow! I can’t wait to hear and see that version of “Rejection Letter”. How often when you perform is it just you and an instrument? Do you usually have other band members with you or do you adapt album versions to a more limited live performance?
MS: It really depends. Most of the time I play with friends and bandmates. I would say that a trio is the most common of myself, Yuka Tadano on bass, and Cody Rahn on drums. That’s kind of the core. But I’m personally not somebody who cares too much, or even wants to, stick too strictly to the recorded version when I play live. It really depends on the album and the song. I never try to replicate something that might not feel as good live. I like to adapt it. I play solo sometimes, but it really varies. Before the pandemic, I was playing with a string section, which was absolutely amazing and really dope. I’d play with string sections all the time if I could. That’s my favorite iteration, I think. I like mixing it up, though, and doing different things for different shows.
HMS: I recall that on your previous album, you had a live component to recording, recording several parts at once, whereas this current album was recorded very differently. What did those sessions entail?
MS: Yes, this one was very different. The previous session for The Unkindness was myself, Yuka on bass, Cody on drums, and the three of us were playing live for about four days in the studio. Then I had some friends come in and we did backing vocals all together, as a group. There were some overdubs on that record, like the organ was overdubbed and a little bit of strings. But otherwise it was live, including the singing. That was very different from what I’d done before and I loved it. That’s how I wanted to record this album before the pandemic happened, but that shifted things in a way that opened my eyes to a completely different method of recording. I’m really happy with how that went. It kind of surprised me because I am such a fan of live tracking. I just love that raw energy. That can be super magical.
But the pros to doing Rejection Letter the way that we did it is that I spent a week just doing the piano, vocals, and guitar, and I didn’t have to focus on anything else. Usually if we’re in the studio as a band, I’m thinking about a lot of different things at the same time. I’m thinking about getting my takes, but also thinking about the different instruments, thinking of what time we’re going to break for lunch, also ordering lunch and making sure everyone is happy. I’m usually doing a lot of managing as well as performing, so this was a nice way to change it up. I had some serenity within a very chaotic time and when I look back at it, I’m very grateful that we were able to make it happen.
HMS: It definitely feels like there’s a real meditative core to a lot of the songs on this album. I can tell that the way it was built was very considered.
MS: We also really just had fun and enjoyed the process, and I hope that comes through, too. It was a really positive experience in a really sad time with other things falling apart. Here we were in this little studio in Woodstock while everything was falling to pieces around us. There was a lot of positive energy going on when we were doing it.
HMS: That makes me laugh a little because it’s a paradox. There’s a very peaceful feeling to these songs, and yet a lot of the subject matter is very challenging and relevant to what was going on in the outside world then and now. It was this peaceful and meditative thing talking about hard subjects.
MS: [Laughs] That is also true. There was a yin and yang to it. It felt like a very safe environment to be talking about these things and recording them. My producer Kevin Salem is extremely talented, but he’s also just a beautiful soul. Doing it with him just felt cathartic. That’s important when you’re creating anything, to be comfortable with who you’re surrounded by.
HMS: That’s seems to be one of the key things that allows a recording process to feel organic rather than it becoming procedural or rote.
MS: Totally. Also doing something because there’s a real passion is important. Kevin and I were talking about that regarding this record, wanting to tell these stories now rather than waiting. That’s why we rearranged things to do it during the pandemic and I’m so glad we did. It worked.
“Afraid: Woodstock Sessions”:
HMS: Bravo for doing that. I feel like people are asking, “Is it too soon?” What do they mean, “Is it too soon?” Are we really going to want to talk about these experiences in the same way a year from now as we would now? Probably not. It would reflect different things. If we don’t talk about it, that’s not healthy.
MS: Absolutely. I also think it’s very easy to drive yourself crazy wondering about the timing of releases. You just have no idea what’s going to be going on in the world at the time of release, and that’s been tricky. The storming of the Capitol happened a week after the release of my first single, and I would have felt weird promoting it if it had happened the same day. But sometimes you just have to release and hope for the best.
HMS: How was going to Cape Cod to work on some of these songs? I’ve been up there during off season before and I’m so glad I went because it was such a different place.
MS: We were there from mid-March through early June and it was awesome. It was very moody and sometimes I felt like I was walking through the British moors or something. It was foggy and felt like a different place. We went there thinking we were going to be there for a week, but that’s when everyone was beginning to realize that Covid was going to be serious, just before lockdown. We thought we were going there to visit our friends who had a house up there and then we all realized that we were going to be there longer.
This is one of the things I have felt really grateful for during this time, that we were able to be there for three months. I felt very lucky, and it reminded me that I didn’t really need that much, just a bag thrown in the car. We didn’t bring that much with us initially, though I brought the guitar. It was definitely a time for a lot of reflection, and then it ended up being a time of writing, which really surprised me since that was the furthest thing from my mind. It just kind of happened.
HMS: I didn’t know that this happened during the early pandemic period! I’m glad you were somewhere a little more remote during that time. Was “Martha’s Vineyard” one of the songs that you were working on then?
MS: It was. I was taking a lot of walks on the beach and listening to music on walks. At the same time, I was also playing around with the guitar and different tunings on it. One day, I was listening to this playlist with Phoebe Bridgers and Courtney Barnett, and I was feeling this guitar-driven energy and wanted to try my hand at it. I tried that back at the house, and that sound just came pouring out. It was much about being there during that time and getting lost in a lot of different memories. I was wrestling with feelings of anger about what was happening in the world and how to express that anger. To me, that song goes further into the sea of memories, and at the end, it flows out on its own after being pulled back into a certain memory.
HMS: I find it to be a really interesting song that really shifts as it goes. It’s really cool, musically, how it almost turns into something else towards the end. It becomes almost a ballad or sea-shanty. Did you think consciously about that, or did it just happen?
MS: The latter. A lot of songs that I write take turns at the end and unexpectedly and shift. It’s usually just where the song wants to go. I remember messing around with that instrumental bridge, and then instead of continuing to rev up and rev up, I felt that the song wanted to melt, and move back down into a waltz or something. It was almost like getting really angry, and then holding it in until it turns to sadness and melancholy.
HMS: It boils over and then becomes goopier somehow.
MS: Yes, it becomes a mess. Being messy is something I was thinking about a lot on this album. The original title was going to be What a Mess We’ve Made, before I wrote the song “Rejection Letter”. It was the idea of the world being messy, people being messy, trying to embrace the messiness in myself. I’m someone who has in the past, and in the present really, tried to be a perfectionist. I’m trying to let go of that and embrace the messiness.
HMS: I’m so glad that you said that because I noticed the word “mess” coming up on the album. Obviously, there’s a song called “Mess”, with the really relatable line, “I make a mess better than anyone I know.” That just feels kind of perfect as a realization. But also, in the song “100 Miles”, the word “mess” comes up a lot in terms of human behavior on a big scale. It’s not purely negative, is it? It’s more ambiguous than that.
MS: Ambiguous is right. I think it’s acknowledging that the mess is there and what it looks like on a bigger scale, and also on a more personal scale, because life is really freaking messy, especially right now. It’s about acknowledging that rather than just trying to look the other way. I think it’s important for my own work that I do, in looking at my life, and how I go through the world to say, “I’m a flawed human. I mess up. That is okay. That is not something to be ashamed of.” I think all that was coming into play.
HMS: I’m someone who likes to control mess, and if you’re someone like me and clung too hard to that idea in 2020 and 2021, that experience could probably destroy you. It’s been a realization of what we can control and can’t control.
MS: I totally get that. That idea of control and that idea of being messy definitely go hand in hand. It’s part of being a human to realize how much is out of our control. That’s hard and that’s real.
HMS: I also wanted to mention the beautiful live action video for “Martha’s Vineyard.” I’ve come across River Run Productions, who you worked with, before. How did you manage to make the video?
MS: The filmmaker I worked with at River Run Productions is Lâle Teoman and the way that I connected with her is an interesting story. Lâle is Australian, and there’s an Australian artist, Caitlin Hartnett, whose music is really rad. Several years ago she was playing in New York and I went to see her. Lâle was also in town because her film was being screened at a festival, so I met her at the Caitlyn Hartnett show. She was really cool and we really clicked, and we later connected online. I really loved her aesthetic.
A year later, I was in Australia because my cousins were there and I was visiting, so I contacted Lâle and asked if she’d like to film a music video. She said yes and filmed my first music video for a song called “Names,” off an EP of mine called Living in My Head. We just shot together for a day all over the Blue Mountains and had the best time. We stayed in touch and then when I knew I wanted a video for “Martha’s Vineyard”, I knew that she would be a good fit. We worked together remotely and she shot all the footage of the ocean in Australia. Then she had me film my parts of it over here, and she did all the editing. That’s how that video came about.
Check out ‘Martha’s Vineyard’ here: